Angie Salmon: Money Talks with Female Leaders
Angie is a SVP/Managing Director of CBIZ. Angie has significant expertise in board of directors and executive search, having completed over 400 search engagements since joining EFL Associates/CBIZ in 2004. In 2019, her role expanded to include commercial insurance, employee benefits and compensation in addition to executive/board search.
Money Talks are hosted by Lisa Clements, owner of Clear Springs Wealth. (www.clearspringswealth.com)
Lisa is a financial strategist and investment manager who specializes in helping professional female leaders secure their financial future. She builds ongoing relationships with her clients, helping them save money in taxes, build wealth through investments, and make sound financial decisions for the future.
How To Connect with Lisa:
•Download 3 Free Savings Hacks 1 Page PDF
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•Submit a money question for Lisa to answer in an upcoming episode
Full Transcript:
Interview with Angie Salmon
[00:00:00] Angie: I don't feel like women should feel embarrassed or ashamed if they're in their forties and they haven't started saving for their kids college, or they haven't started saving for retirement.
That's nothing to be ashamed about. People are in different situations and need to make the decisions that they need to make for themselves and for their families at the time. And we're all doing the best we can, right?
[00:00:25] Lisa: Welcome. I'm Lisa Clements, founder of Clear Springs Wealth. Money Talks with Female Leaders aims to break taboos surrounding women and money and boost your own financial confidence. You'll hear powerhouse women share their personal and professional experiences with money. They tackle questions spanning from why money is important, how money has shaped their careers, and how much they spend on a bottle of wine or a one week vacation.
I hope you enjoy.
[00:00:51] Lisa: Hello, Angie. How are you?
[00:00:55] Angie: I'm good. How are you?
[00:00:56] Lisa: Good. Thank you. Thank you so much for joining [00:01:00] us today. I really appreciate it.
[00:01:02] Angie: My pleasure.
[00:01:03] Lisa: I want to talk money with you today. But before we dig in, I would love to know a little bit about you, like current age, um, and then just so we have a sense for if you're right out of school or if you've been in your career for a while.
[00:01:20] Angie: Don't I look like I'm just right out of school? This is bold, by the way. First question off the bat. How old are you, Ang?
[00:01:29] Lisa: I know, this is gonna be real.
[00:01:33] Angie: Yes.
[00:01:33] Lisa: We're going to dig right in.
[00:01:35] Angie: You asked for candor. We'll, we'll get there.
[00:01:37] Lisa: Exactly.
[00:01:39] Angie: Yes.
[00:01:39] Lisa: So tell us just where you are in life and then a little bit about your career progression.
[00:01:45] Angie: Absolutely. So I am 45 years old. Fun fact, for almost six months, I thought that I was 44, like, of this year, and I was sorely disappointed to realize that, indeed, I'm, I'm [00:02:00] 45. So, um...
[00:02:01] Lisa: Okay.
[00:02:01] Angie: That was problematic. So, in terms of kind of background and career path, I have spent some time, mostly in the midwest growing up, ended up in Wichita, Kansas.
That's where I graduated from high school. And then was recruited to play volleyball at UMKC. So played volleyball for four years on scholarship, which was really helpful to come out of school without the crushing debt that a lot of people are facing now and decided to get my Master's while I was there.
So I was a pole vaulter, for my fifth year, got my Master's, started my career at Arthur Andersen and, went from Arthur Andersen to Cerner where I met you, many, many years ago.
Then I transitioned to EFL Associates, which is now a part of CBIZ, on the executive search side. For about 17, 18 years, I have been in executive search, which means recruiting for CEOs, CFOs, heads of [00:03:00] HR, you know, all across the functional leadership positions for a variety of industries.
And then about 2 to 3 years ago, I wanted to try something new, wanted to expand. So, CBIZ created a role for me that kind of crosses a number of our service lines.
And that allows me to work with clients on total rewards. So compensation, employee benefits, retirement plans, executive search and a couple of other things as well. And so here I am, um, almost 20 years later at CBIZ EFL.
[00:03:33] Lisa: Wow. I love it. I love it. And then what would you say, as you look back, are some of the career highlights that stand out to you?
[00:03:43] Angie: Yeah. You know, the transition from a finance operations type of role within Cerner into this Next Gen program within Cerner. You may remember where they put you into various positions, and I really did not want to go to HR. [00:04:00] My, um, you know, my thought about what, what HR would mean.
I thought it would be too limiting for my career. I just didn't want to do it. And so the power of programs like that, especially early in your career, it completely changed the trajectory of what I did in my life. So, so that's a big one. The other, quite frankly, is UMKC being able to, to play volleyball.
And I met my husband at UMKC. He's a basketball player. Like, I owe a lot to that whole experience as well.
[00:04:35] Lisa: Okay. Oh, very cool. All right. So you mentioned your husband. How long have you been married?
[00:04:42] Angie: Uh, also almost 20 years. So April will be our 20th anniversary.
So I started with EFL, in March and Travis and I got married in April and going back to money, I distinctly remember like, completely stressing [00:05:00] out about the wedding and expenses and I had this new work family and so we had lots of conversations about like, do we have to invite these new 20 people that I know because like, we can't afford it.
[00:05:16] Lisa: I don't even know if I like them yet.
[00:05:17] Angie: I don't know them yet, but that was a particularly, you know, because this is about finances and money, that was a particularly stressful time in our lives because it was very, very stressful to try and put together a wedding and, and, you know, do all of that planning on a super budget.
So we were at the Town Hall at Old Shawneetown,
because you could take your own food, you could take your own alcohol. We were scraping things together.
Outstanding. And for our listeners, that's in Kansas City. It's in Shawnee, in the Kansas City [00:06:00] area. You know, I see some of the weddings now, some of the weddings that I go to, and I like, wow, how do we even pull that off? And it was great. We had a, we had a great time.
[00:06:11] Lisa: Oh, that's awesome. That's awesome. All right. Do you have kids or pets?
[00:06:16] Angie: Both. So we have a 16 year old son, Tyler, and a just turned 13 year old daughter who is in middle school. And, we do have pets. We consider ourselves a dog family.
[00:06:31] Lisa: Okay?
[00:06:31] Angie: However, we have no dogs. We have two cats and a snake.
[00:06:38] Lisa: Okay? So consider ourselves a dog family...
[00:06:42] Angie: Yes, our dog, Ray passed away in 2020 and none of us have gotten over it yet and we just can't, can't get over it. Our hearts are still broken.
[00:06:54] Lisa: Oh, believe me. Yeah. My heart goes out to the whole family. Yes, I get it. I [00:07:00] get it. Uh, well, thank you so much for the background. That's super helpful. As we go into the three main areas I'd love to ask you about. I'd love to understand a little bit about money in your history, you know, money as you grew up. Second, I want to talk about money in your career. And then lastly, I'd love to talk about money and spending as it sits today for you. Does that sound okay?
[00:07:26] Angie: That sounds great.
[00:07:28] Lisa: Okay. So first thing, I love this kind of mega question, which is why is money important to you?
[00:07:37] Angie: That is a great question. I think it really is a proxy, number one, and when you're thinking about compensation, right? It is a proxy for the value that your company places in you.
In my opinion, and so I think that it's important, especially for women to really think deeply [00:08:00] about, you know, does this compensation reflect the value that I'm bringing to the company? So that's, that's one reason that it's important. And then from a broader perspective, just from a, looking at the way that you operate in your life and those sorts of things. As Travis and I have become more successful, it has created an environment where we can be more
free and flexible to do the things that we want to do. So, for example, in 2020, Travis left Pulsinelli, where he had been an attorney for 20 years and started his own firm. Now, that would have been absolutely terrifying earlier in our careers, right? When we didn't have the, the ability to have that safety net, and those sorts of things.
So I think that it brings a lot of freedom when you, you still have problems, but when you don't have money problems, your life [00:09:00] feels, um, a bit easier.
[00:09:03] Lisa: Yeah, yeah, I can appreciate that. When you look back on your childhood, was money talked about at home?
[00:09:12] Angie: It was. Really? It was.
A couple of things came to mind. Number one, my Mom always said, you know, don't talk about money. Like with, you know, if you'd have a birthday and you got $50, like, don't tell people that you got $50. That's bragging.
[00:09:31] Lisa: Right.
[00:09:32] Angie: You know, those sorts of things. And, so, there was a bit of a secrecy around how it was taboo to talk about how much money did people make. I didn't know how much my parents made, and those sorts of things.
And, and so I think there was a little bit of, um, secrecy around money in general. When my parents divorced, it [00:10:00] became a, an issue in some ways.An example, I needed braces. Like, I had some jacked up teeth. But there was, I mean, Alright! So there were some,some pretty significant decisions to make around who's gonna pay for it, mom or Dad, you know? those conversations I remember being very stressful when I was younger. And, and then ultimately, I did get braces, but it was not a real orthodontist.
[00:10:34] Lisa: It wasn't a real orthodontist?
[00:10:36] Angie: So, my mom found a dentist in Wichita that, I don't know if this is legal or not, but basically would do it.
[00:10:45] Lisa: We're totally outing an illegal dentist.
[00:10:47] Angie: Yes, I know, I know. So, that was, was one thing I remember. The other thing that is just kind of funny. I recall, my Grandma, on my dad's side, my Grandma Jeffries loved a deal, right? She loved haggling. She [00:11:00] loved going to estate sales. She loved going to garage sales.
And so I still love a deal. Like, I love garage sales. I, feel a little bit weird about this, but I'll go to my neighbor's house when they have a garage sale and I'll buy stuff. And, and I still go to Savers occasionally, like my kids were dressed in Saver's, not because we had to, but because I am... Well, my family will say you're a super cheap.
Um, but it's also like, why spend $50 on a sweatshirt that they're going to grow out of in three months versus almost a brand new sweatshirt from Savers that they're going to grow out of in three months?
[00:11:45] Lisa: Yeah. Especially during the growing years when they're growing like weeds.
[00:11:49] Angie: So this was way longer answer than you wanted.
I think that's so funny. Tell me, I'm curious how old you were when your parents divorced. I think I was, first [00:12:00] grade when the divorce was official.
[00:12:03] Lisa: Yeah. Yeah. So you were pretty young.
[00:12:05] Angie: Pretty young. And I never had the sense growing up that we were poor. I feel very fortunate in the upbringing that I had, but, way, way back when my parents were still married, I know that money was very tight. Then after the divorce, we worked in the summer, my sister and I, and,helped pay for things. But we always had our basic needs absolutely met and over met, by most people's standards. But we weren't getting all the Pepe jeans and Z Cavaricci.
[00:12:38] Lisa: You actually, you and your sister helped pay for things for your family?
Not for our family. I mean, we paid for some things for ourselves. So, I think I was,14 when I got my first job at McDonald's and,then had a number of jobs, you know, all through high school... a bagel shop, I worked at a newspaper for a [00:13:00] while. I was a lifeguard, and of course did all the babysitting and that sort of thing. Okay.
[00:13:05] Angie: Yeah.
[00:13:05] Lisa: What money beliefs that you received as a child have stuck with you through today?
[00:13:12] Angie: Now this part is interesting because my Mom also loves a good deal. Right? I don't know if this is a midwest thing, but, "Oh, Mom, I love that sweatshirt." "Isn't that great? I got it for $6." Whatever.
[00:13:25] Lisa: Yes. You gotta say pride in the deal.
[00:13:28] Angie: Pride in the deal. Um, and I think that that has, has certainly remained. My sister has more expensive tastes than I do.
Thus, you know, I actually am wearing a pair of my sister's hand me down pants right now that she probably had for five years and was like, "Oh, these are out of style." "Oh, I'll take them."
[00:13:52] Lisa: You're like, yeah, I'm here.
[00:13:54] Angie: That's right. Just call me anytime you're cleaning out the closet. Um, but I think that, that, [00:14:00] that is one thing that has remained. I think the other thing that I hadn't really thought about, until you asked is, in our family, debt was not seen as bad, but, something to work out of as quickly as possible. Travis and I have always been the type, pay-off credit cards as soon as possible, not do the monthly payment and all of those sorts of things.
And I think that the lack of debt or trying to get out of debt, is something that's kind of followed from the upbringing.
[00:14:33] Lisa: Okay. Has your childhood experience with money, like, "oh, don't talk about it," or, you know, "don't say how much money was in the card," you know, how has that impacted how you've instructed your children?
[00:14:48] Angie: Oh that's a great question too. Yeah. Um, so, so it's really interesting. I don't know that our kids know how much we make.
[00:14:57] Lisa: Okay.
[00:14:57] Angie: Um, I [00:15:00] think that we try to, we instruct them more on the expense side of money. Um, versus the revenue side. Because, we'd like to give them a sense for, do you know how much our electric bill was this month?
Like, think about that. And car insurance, especially as Tyler came on to our car insurance. So we talk about the expense side more than we do, compensation side, which is interesting. And I think probably a holdout from how I was raised as well.
[00:15:32] Lisa: Okay.
[00:15:33] Angie: And I don't know why. I don't know if that's good or bad? I'd love your thoughts on that.
[00:15:37] Lisa: Neither do I, frankly. I think it is so interesting. When I was growing up, I had no idea, what my parents earned or, you know, all I knew was to look at like the size of our house or the kinds of cars we drove. But yeah, I had no idea.
[00:15:55] Angie: Right.
[00:15:56] Lisa: And I don't know if I had... I don't have any children. I [00:16:00] have nieces and nephews, but I certainly don't talk money with them very... As they get older I do, especially given my career now, but, but yeah, it's, which is why I'm, I'm loving this conversation because I think it's just the more we talk about it...
[00:16:17] Angie: Absolutely. I think that the,the other thing is like we realize how fortunate we have been, in our lives, I mean, both, you know, scholarship athletes and those sorts of things. I said to my daughter, who's 13 now, but I think she was 11 at the time. I said, "You know, our family has been really, really lucky. We need to just, you need to recognize that," and she said, "Well, is it lucky or is it fortunate?"
And, and so then we had a discussion about, it's also been a lot of, really, really hard work, but we definitely started in a place, of advantage, I think, for a number of reasons, but so now I say, "We've been very, very fortunate."
[00:16:57] Lisa: I love that. Yeah, because [00:17:00] scholarships didn't come without a heck of a lot of work on your part or your husband's part.
[00:17:05] Angie: Yeah, right. That's true. But there, but I know there's a lot of college kids who have crushing debt, and they're also working full time and trying to have a full load, and don't have all of the resources that you get as an athlete with, study halls and people making sure that you're being successful in the classroom and all, all of those sorts of things. So,yeah, I feel like a debt of gratitude to, to UMKC for that.
[00:17:31] Lisa: I love that. Okay. So let's transition a little bit to talking about money and your career.
[00:17:38] Angie: Okay.
[00:17:39] Lisa: Love having kind of the history of how you were raised and what money scripts, as they say, have followed you into adulthood. Clearly as a managing director of your business, you have a lot on your plate. How have you managed finances while working such a demanding career?
[00:17:59] Angie: [00:18:00] Yeah, so, when Travis and Ifirst got married and even before that, he started working with a financial advisor that was referred to him by his aunt and uncle, like, even before we got married. So this was, he was probably in his late 20s at the time. And I think that that was one of the most important things that we could have done. To have someone to help guide us in, um, here's some of the things that you should be doing. It's so important to start saving early.
[00:18:35] Lisa: I'm sure that you talk to your clients about this. And the second thing I would say about that is it's never too late to start saving. Like today is the day. Right. Exactly.
[00:18:49] Angie: And so, I told you about the wedding. It was a very stressful time and we didn't have a lot of disposable income to save or, make other decisions around [00:19:00] houses and maintenance and cars and those sorts of things.
So having someone say, you know, "Let's just do this. Let's do it at this level." So we started saving very consistently, very early, maxing out 401ks, those sorts of things. And then, we decided we're just going to live within the means of like, we just pretend like we never even had that money. Right?
[00:19:24] Lisa: Yeah. Do you pay the bills in the family or does he manage like the, the bank accounts?
[00:19:32] Angie: I usually, well, it's, it's kind of a joint effort actually. So we have our checking account and both of us can, when the bills arrive, we do everything online so manage it that way. And it's a pretty significant partnership in terms of meeting with our financial advisor.
But yeah, we're both pretty much aware of where things are. And, um, I would say the other thing
that was, perhaps unique [00:20:00] for a child of divorced parents, but my Mom did not have a college degree when she and my Dad divorced. She had been a stay at home Mom and it was jarring for her to find herself in that situation. Now she's a rock star. She went back to school when we were in elementary school, became a physical therapist. Um, you know, rocked it, all of those sorts of things. But I think that that situation really made me feel like, I never want to depend on someone else. And I love Travis and expect that we will be, you know, death do us part, but I've always wanted to be financially independent.
[00:20:41] Lisa: Okay.
[00:20:42] Angie: If that makes sense.
[00:20:43] Lisa: It makes a ton of sense. Yeah. To not ever, for whatever reason, find yourself in that jarring situation.
[00:20:51] Angie: Right, right.
[00:20:52] Lisa: Yeah.
How has money influenced how you've managed your career? [00:21:00]
[00:21:00] Angie: Yeah. So I think early in my career, I mean, I started Arthur Andersen, I still remember my base salary. I thought it was amazing. $42,000. And I was like, I have made it. I am rich.
I'm so happy for myself. And then I went to Cerner and I got a little bit of a bump from that and I was thrilled. And I did not negotiate on either one of those compensations. Like, I had no idea what I was doing. I was in my 20s, like, they offered a position and I thought, okay, well, this is what they can pay.
And so I can either accept or decline. It never even crossed my mind to say, "I would like more." Now at Cerner, I asked my hiring manager, my first boss there, "Hey, would you have given me more if I would have asked for it?" And he was like, "Yeah, you were like at the low end of the range." And I thought,
[00:22:00]
[00:22:00] Angie: no. Um, and so, you know, that taught me a really good lesson of if you don't ask, you'll never know. Right? And when you're going into a new position or when you're moving into a different role with another company or those sorts of things, because so much of my career has been executive search, I talk with a lot of candidates around,compensation and, I would say men negotiate more than women.
Gross generalization. And sometimes get into more of the details. You know, as it relates to severance or equity, or,I'm going to have my attorney review all of those sorts of things. And so in my own career from that very early experience, and by the way, I did take a pay cut when I went from Cerner to EFL.
[00:22:57] Lisa: Really?
[00:22:58] Angie: I did. But [00:23:00] I knew that the long term opportunity was significant.
[00:23:06] Lisa: Okay. Okay.
[00:23:08] Angie: I didn't know for sure, but I thought, and I was hopeful that the pay cut wouldn't be forever.
[00:23:15] Lisa: Okay. When you look back at the pay increases over time, and granted you've been now at EFL or CBIZ for almost 20 years.
[00:23:26] Angie: Yeah.
[00:23:27] Lisa: Before that it was Cerner and then Arthur. What in your career has led to the biggest salary increase? Do you think it's taking that pay cut for the potential, or has there been something in the last 20 years that you feel like you've done that's really led to the biggest, incremental pay increase?
[00:23:47] Angie: Um, well, absolutely. It would be, the commission structure.
[00:23:53] Lisa: Okay.
[00:23:55] Angie: So for many, many years, over a decade, I [00:24:00] think, at CBIZ or EFL, I was 100% commission. So I had no base salary and that was a little scary, going into that, but there was unlimited upside. What I loved and love about it is that it's all on you. Like, how hard do you want to work? Because you can see a very direct line to... I'm going to work this hard. I'm going to, you know, be this successful in terms of serving clients and, and those sorts of things. And then that directly leads to... It's a very clear line between, effort and compensation.
[00:24:43] Lisa: Yeah. Was it 100% commission when you started or did that happen over time?
[00:24:48] Angie: That happened over time as well. When I started my career, it was more of a base type of situation. And then, the consultant that I was working with would give me a little taste of, okay, we're going to [00:25:00] work on this project together.
And here's some commission if you work on this project. And then as I got more and more responsibility for handling search projects myself and then started, on the business development side of that, the split of commission, just changed over time. And, you know, looking back, I still probably wasn't great and quite frankly, I'm probably still not great at advocating for myself when it comes to compensation. Because a percentage can mean a lot. But I think that the, the biggest difference in where I started my career to now, and I never, ever thought I was going to be in a business development role.
I never thought I, like, I still don't consider myself a salesperson, but most people would say, "Well, if you're primarily commissioned, then yeah, you're a salesperson."
[00:25:58] Lisa: Yeah.
[00:25:59] Angie: Don't tell [00:26:00] anybody.
[00:26:00] Lisa: Okay. It's going to be our secret.
[00:26:03] Angie: Okay. Okay. Great.
[00:26:04] Lisa: And our millions of listeners.
That's right. Would you have done the EFL move from Cerner if you were single?
[00:26:14] Angie: Yes. Well, ooh, um, I don't know that I would have done it when I did. So Travis and I were engaged. I had spent a night at Cerner several times like in the same clothes the next day, you know, like not sleeping at the office, but just working and then same clothes and what have you. And at one point, Travis said, "Is this what our life is going to be like as a married couple?
Like, are you marrying Cerner or are you marrying me?" And that was, you know, I was just a type of person that would just work. And Cerner was great [00:27:00] for a number of reasons, right? They give people who are very early in their career, a lot of really, significant leadership opportunities. But, if you want to work all night, they are totally fine with that.
[00:27:14] Lisa: Right. They're not going to stop you.
[00:27:16] Angie: They're not going to stop you, or they'll say on a, you know, on a Thursday at 5:30pm, "Oh, we're going to need this tomorrow morning by 8," and it's implied that you're going to get it done.
[00:27:29] Lisa: Right. Interesting. Have you ever invested in professional development for yourself to boost your earning potential? if so, what was it? What impact did it have?
[00:27:43] Angie: Yeah. So as I mentioned, when we kind of talked about the career trajectory. In 2019, um, early 2020, I had decided that I wanted to try something new. This new role was created within CBIZ, that crossed different service lines. [00:28:00] But to be able to really change the way that I was compensated, I needed to get licensed in life and health and in property and casualty and get my Series 65. And so I did all of that. It felt like I was back in school, like with all the books and studying and, getting ready for these exams. I just finished like 36 hours of continuing education. I mean, I had said, "Hey, I want to learn something new. I want to continue to grow."
So there was that. But a large part of what was driving it was I want to be able be compensated for some of these other services that CBIZ provides. So that was the route that I took, and it has been a good decision. Side note, I am so happy that I got my MBA right after I got my undergrad.
I can't imagine. I know people do it, but I think it would be so hard to be working and [00:29:00] raising a family, and then going back to get an advanced degree. I don't know that I got as much out of it without having the work experience, prior. I think I would have been a better student and absorbed more if I would have had more experience in the workforce.
But I think it would have been really hard for me to go back.
Have you ever experienced... an unexpected financial setback? I wouldn't say anything that was unexpected or not recoverable. A lot of people talk about significant health issues that are unbelievably expensive or those sorts of things.
Knock on wood, we haven't had to experience, something like that that's been really devastating from a financial perspective.
[00:29:49] Lisa: Okay. Good, good. Okay. Alright. In their thirties, forties and fifties, are there any particular goals that you would recommend [00:30:00] women be thinking about setting for themselves?
[00:30:03] Angie: Yeah, I don't know that I would put a dollar amount to it because everyone's different, right? Tastes are different, lifestyles are different, all of those sorts of things. And so, I was listening to a podcast, and this resonated well for me. A woman was talking about, early in your career, you make decisions or you do things that you don't really want to do because you have to, because you're grinding and you're climbing and you don't know when the opportunity is going to come up again. And so you say yes and, give it your all, which I think is certainly what I did in my career.
And then, at some point you get to the point where you can say no to the things that you don't want to do. And that's really freeing, right? I don't have to do that anymore.
[00:30:55] Lisa: Right.
[00:30:56] Angie: And then what's really awesome [00:31:00] is when you get to the point that you can say no to things that you really do want to do, but other things are your priority.
[00:31:08] Lisa: I love that.
[00:31:09] Angie: I have opportunity at CBIZ that would be a very significant kind of promotion. And I turned it down because... (Really?) yes. Because I now am to a place where I can say no to things that I want to do because my kids are 16 and 13. I feel the time slipping through my fingers and I now realize how critically important time is. It was a lot of conversations with Travis. It was lots of conversations internally as well.
[00:32:00] Um, you know, you can tell I'm still kind of waffling. But, I feel like I'm at a place now that I can make decisions based on what I really want to do and what I really want to prioritize in my life. And that is what I think is really freeing.
[00:32:17] Lisa: I love that so much.
[00:32:20] Angie: It's also nerve wracking because I've never really done this before. I've always you know, I'm climbing. I'm climbing. I'm doing all the things and saying yes. And so it's scary. It's out of character a little bit.
[00:32:34] Lisa: Yeah. Yeah. It's really easy to say, you know, "Live in alignment with your values, what's important to you." But when you're actually staring the promotion in the face, there's skin in the game for sure.
[00:32:48] Angie: And you think about, I mean, what I've been thinking about and I'm sure, millions of women have thought about the same thing is... Is this going to, ultimately [00:33:00] limit my career progression, in the future? And all of those sorts of things.
I don't know if you've seen Ali Wong, her stand up, it's totally raunchy, so this is just a side note, but she said, "I don't want to lean in, I want to lay down."
And her point was, you get to a place where you do what you want to do. And what I want to do more than anything is be there for my kids. Last little tidbit, I was working really, really hard and still work really, really hard, but like complete imbalance. We got stopped at a stoplight.
My son was going to preschool and I was like, "Oh, red light. I hate red lights." And he goes, "I like red lights. I get to spend more time with you." And I was like...
[00:33:51] Lisa: Oh, gosh.
[00:33:54] Angie: Yeah. And every working mom has those moments. But I also feel [00:34:00] like, working and working hard and doing all of the things that I do... my kids see that. And I, I feel like some of that work ethic that they have seen both from Travis and from me, is passed on as well.
[00:34:15] Lisa: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
[00:34:17] Angie: I've gotten way off topic on all of your questions.
[00:34:21] Lisa: No, thank you for sharing that, I think that's huge. I do. Alright, let's get to the third portion of our conversation, which is probably going to be the shortest, but hopefully the most fun, which is how do we spend money? How do you spend money today? So first, tell me what in your life have you outsourced?
[00:34:42] Angie: Oh, my very favorite thing that I have outsourced... two things. One is our lawn service.
[00:34:49] Lisa: Okay.
[00:34:50] Angie: So when I was a kid, I mowed the lawn every week.
Yeah. I don't know why I always feel like our grass was dead, but it was so [00:35:00] dusty. So, um, so I love not having to mow the lawn.
[00:35:04] Lisa: Okay.
[00:35:04] Angie: Which is silly and, you know...
[00:35:08] Lisa: Oh no, that's not silly at all, not at all.
[00:35:11] Angie: Other thing that we have outsourced, which I really have a little bit ofstress about is, we do have a person or team that comes in and cleans our house every other week.
[00:35:22] Lisa: Okay. Yeah.
[00:35:23] Angie: And I think it's such, it's money so, so well spent. I love it. But I also remember every Saturday, that was house cleaning day for my sister and I, and we'd spend half the day cleaning the house, which I absolutely hated. But my kids don't have to do the deep clean that we did every week. And I'm like, it's, it would probably be better if they had to do that. Um, so, I have mixed feelings about that and they should also be mowing the lawn, right? Um, so I don't want to do it. [00:36:00] I think it was good for me.
[00:36:05] Lisa: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:36:05] Angie: I also feel like it would be good for my kids to work at McDonald's. There is nothing that makes you want to go to college more than cleaning the men's bathroom at McDonald's.
[00:36:15] Lisa: For me, it was telemarketing. I was selling Sports Illustrated renewals.
[00:36:21] Angie: Yeah.
[00:36:21] Lisa: Oh my gosh. Yeah. Yeah. And then singing the birthday song at Olive Garden. Oh my goodness. Yeah. I was like, yeah, there's more to life. There's definitely more to life. Alright, have you had a bogey for yourself, you and Travis, as far as how much you want to have saved for retirement?
[00:36:43] Angie: I think that is such a great question. As I mentioned, I think working with a financial advisor is so important because, you get that feedback around, hey, for example, for us, don't count on social security, these sorts of things. So [00:37:00] we haven't had a, this is the amount of money, like, not a number that we have to hit, to be able to feel comfortable that we can retire. But we have given some goals around timing and had lots of deep conversations with our financial advisor around this is the retirement that we imagine for ourselves. Are we on track? For when we want to retire? And so we've had lots of those types of, modeling and hey, let's change the interest rates, what happens in the stock market and all of those sorts of things. So we don't have a specific number, but we have a plan.
[00:37:38] Lisa: Okay.
[00:37:38] Angie: And then the other thing that I would say, we really haven't done a good job of addressing, now that I see my parents taking care of their parents and knowing that us taking care of our parents is a possibility in the, I'll say the future. Not the near future, but the [00:38:00] future. The long term care aspects of, of planning, is not something that we've done a good job of addressing as a family. To relieve the burden for our kids of, okay, what if we end up, needing to be in assisted living or in a nursing home for an extended period of time? It's remarkably expensive and and so that, that weighs on us, as we are thinking about the future future.
[00:38:30] Lisa: Okay. I'm curious, do you know if your parents have long term care insurance?
[00:38:35] Angie: Um, I know that they have life insurance. I don't know that they have long term care insurance. And, now that we've talked about it, I'm probably going to ask.
[00:38:45] Lisa: Okay. Have you and Travis done long term care or have you talked?
[00:38:51] Angie: We have talked about it several times.We also have life insurance. We have not pulled the trigger on long term care [00:39:00] insurance. We've decided, at least for now, we'll self-insure that side. But I don't know if that's the right decision. It's just the decision that we've made for right now.
[00:39:13] Lisa: Okay. That's totally fair. Totally fair. As we get ready to wrap up, I wanna go into what I call the speed round.
[00:39:21] Angie: Okay.
[00:39:23] Lisa: Which is a bunch of just spending questions that I think, well, I know will be fascinating to me. I can't wait to hear how different women answer these questions. So you feel ready? I know. Okay.
[00:39:38] Angie: Nobody's allowed to judge. This is a safe spot, right?
[00:39:41] Lisa: Safe space, safe space, absolutely.. Okay. Are you ready?
[00:39:47] Angie: Let me stretch. Okay.
[00:39:48] Lisa: Stretch it out. Okay. What, Angie, do you think is the right percentage to tip?
[00:39:54] Angie: 20% for standard, for good.
[00:39:58] Lisa: Okay. For good service.
[00:39:59] Angie: [00:40:00] Yes.
[00:40:00] Lisa: Okay. Uh, what is the one thing you'll splurge on?
[00:40:05] Angie: Experiences.
[00:40:06] Lisa: Okay.
[00:40:07] Angie: If it's vacation, if it's the fast pass at Worlds of Fun, those sorts of things.
[00:40:14] Lisa: Okay.
[00:40:14] Angie: Splurge.
[00:40:15] Lisa: All right. What, what is one thing you're super frugal with?
[00:40:19] Angie: Clothes.. Handbags. Furniture.
[00:40:25] Lisa: Okay. If we get over to your house for dinner, and we're going to be sitting on IKEA.
[00:40:31] Angie: Yes. You will be sitting, okay, so Travis and I bought the chairs that are in our kitchen when we got married.
[00:40:39] Lisa: Okay.
[00:40:40] Angie: 20 year old chairs and the table, the kitchen table as well, like I love it.
I just don't, I just don't care that much about... Now I can appreciate going into a lovely home that is so wonderful and beautiful and everything else. I think it's great, but I don't care enough [00:41:00] about it for myself.
[00:41:02] Lisa: Got it.
[00:41:02] Angie: And cars. I mean, we have good cars, very nice cars, but not like really nice luxury cars.
[00:41:10] Lisa: Okay, so let's go there. Alright. How much is the right, quote unquote, right amount to spend on a car?
[00:41:20] Angie: It depends on where you are in your career and your life.
My first car was a Ford Escort two door stick, coming out of college. So that was my first, that was my first big girl car.
[00:41:33] Lisa: Okay.
[00:41:34] Angie: Mazda 6, and then a, Ford Edge. So you can see as my career progressed. So if I end up with a beater, you'll know that things have gone terribly wrong.
[00:41:46] Lisa: What do you drive now?
[00:41:48] Angie: So I love my car now. It is a Blazer, a Chevy Blazer. And my son, when I was looking for a new car, had [00:42:00] over a hundred thousand miles on my Edge. And, um, he was like, "Oh, you should get a Blazer." I'm like, "I'm not going to buy a Blazer. That's what my high school friends drove. Like with the windows blown out, not getting a Blazer." And then the salesperson was so brilliant. They had this beautiful car in the lot and it had this big sign in the windshield that said, "This car is for Angie." And I was like... You got me. I left with it that day.
[00:42:30] Lisa: Serious?
[00:42:31] Angie: Yes. It was brilliant. So if any of you that are watching are salespeople, I was only there for a test drive and it, it sold me.
[00:42:40] Lisa: Oh my gosh, I love that. What's the right amount to spend on a bottle of wine?
[00:42:46] Angie: For myself, $20.
[00:42:48] Lisa: Okay.
If I'm taking it to somebody's party, between $50 and $75. If it's like a gift, I don't know good wine from bad [00:43:00] wine, so I only have the price tag to judge. Oh, this must be good. Okay. And you kind of alluded to these two. How much would you spend on a purse?
[00:43:15] Angie: Okay. I don't know if I want to admit this. So the last purse that I carried, I bought at Savers for $7.
[00:43:35] Lisa: I would never have guessed that never a million years. If you're just listening to this podcast and not watching it, you have to sign in at some point and watch the video on YouTube. Because you will see this elegantly dressed blonde beauty of a woman. And the idea of you carrying a $7 purse just [00:44:00] makes me laugh.
Okay, so, uh, the way that you described me is a little inaccurate. I'm like sweating from my discomfort of telling all my secrets on this podcast for others to know about. Okay.
[00:44:15] Angie: I have never in my life bought an expensive purse. My whole family knows that I'm notoriously frugal. They would say cheap. My stepmom, the last couple of years has bought me a Coach purse for Christmas.
[00:44:35] Lisa: Oh, nice.
[00:44:37] Angie: Now I still occasionally carry my $7 purse from Savers.
[00:44:45] Lisa: Okay.
[00:44:45] Angie: Now everybody, here's what I'm really worried about, Lisa, is that all of these great professional women are going to go to Savers and buy up all the good stuff. Hands off my good stuff.
[00:44:57] Lisa: Yes. Yes. Nobody take [00:45:00] all the $7 purses.
[00:45:01] Angie: That's right. That's right.
[00:45:03] Lisa: Okay, well then, you said you splurged on experiences. What's the right amount to spend on a vacation (one week)?
[00:45:11] Angie: So, so a big vacation, probably the biggest vacation that we've gone on as an entire family, we went to Mexico. We probably spent between $7000 and $8000, for the four of us. And of course I was doing all the deals.
But I, as we were talking about the vacation and some of the things that we wanted to do excursions and those sorts of things. My thought is you will always have those memories. But you probably won't remember, hey, what did I spend for the dolphin experience?
[00:45:46] Lisa: What is the most extravagant purchase you've ever made?
When we go on vacation like, we went to Disney World at one point and, [00:46:00] Universal Studios... the fast passes are so astronomically expensive. It's so ridiculous. But hey, in my opinion, they are so worth it.
Love that. All right. Last question. Do you have a favorite money quote or mantra, or any thoughts you just want to leave with other women listening to this?
[00:46:28] Angie: You know, I, I wish I had a good money quote. II mean, the only thing that's coming to mind are like rap songs about money.
So I've already given most of my secrets. I'll keep, I'll keep those, I'll keep my musical tastes to myself. But I, I think truly, the comfort that I've had in my own career and my own life, really stems from the advantages that we had, of course, but then it [00:47:00] was a lot of really hard work.
I spent a lot of time building my career and, creating an environment where I have the type of freedom that I have today from a financial perspective. And I know that everyone's financial situation is different. So I don't feel like women should feel embarrassed or ashamed, if they're in their 40s and they haven't started saving for their kids college or they haven't started saving for retirement.
That's nothing to be ashamed about. People are in different situations and need to make the decisions, that they need to make for themselves and for their families at the time. And we're all doing the best we can, right? I do think, you know, I really applaud you for, for having this Podcast and for supporting women the way that you do, through your business, because it is important as women, to take ownership of our own finances.
[00:48:00] And,if you do have a partner and if you're married, to have a partnership.
You need to be in alignment on where your thoughts are financially. But I feel so lucky and so blessed to have found a partner in Travis that thinks very similarly about money.
[00:48:17] Lisa: Yeah, that's great. Thank you so much for for sharing your time with us and your experiences. Just, it's really been enjoyable. So thank you, Angie.
[00:48:28] Angie: This has been so much fun. Thank you for everything that you're doing. I cannot wait to see other women in this format. So I can be like, "Oh, I'm not tipping enough." I cannot wait to learn from the other people that that you're chatting with and really, really have appreciated this experience.
[00:48:46] Lisa: Great. All right, take care.
[00:48:48] Angie: Thanks.
[00:48:50] Lisa: Thanks for listening. Money Talks are hosted by myself, Lisa Clements, owner of Clear Springs Wealth. If you enjoyed this episode, share it with someone you think could benefit from [00:49:00] talking more about money. Make sure you leave a rating, a review, and subscribe so you never miss an episode. You can find show notes at clearspringswealth.com/moneytalks Thanks so much!
