Liz Wamai: Money Talks with Female Leaders
As the VP of Talent Acquisition at Netflix, Liz leads a global team of recruiters who find and hire the best talent for one of the world's leading entertainment companies. With over 20 years of experience in human resources, she have a proven track record of building and managing diverse, high-performing, and customer-focused teams across multiple industries and markets. Liz leverages her skills in recruiting, TA Tech, strategy, project management, and executive search to attract, engage, and retain top talent, while ensuring alignment with business goals and values. She also collaborates with internal and external partners to drive positive social impact and support the growth and development of the overall talent community.
Money Talks are hosted by Lisa Clements, owner of Clear Springs Wealth.
Lisa is a financial strategist and investment manager who specializes in helping professional female leaders secure their financial future. She builds ongoing relationships with her clients, helping them save money in taxes, build wealth through investments, and make sound financial decisions for the future.
Lisa can be reached at: lisa@clearspringswealth.com
How To Connect with Lisa:
•Download 3 Free Savings Hacks 1 Page PDF
•Ask Lisa a question on Instagram
•Submit a money question for Lisa to answer in an upcoming episode: Email lisa@clearspringswealth.com
Transcript:
Interview with Liz Wamai
/[00:00:00]
[00:00:00] Lisa: In Money Talks with Female Leaders, join us as we hear professional female leaders share their personal experiences with money. You'll learn we can speak openly about money, it's not shameful to want to make a lot of money, and that you're not alone no matter your money struggles. Together we will become stronger advocates for ourselves and other women through Money Talks.
Enjoy today's show.
All right, Liz Wamai, how are you?
[00:00:28] Liz: I'm good. Thank you, Lisa. Good to see you.
[00:00:30] Lisa: Good to see you too. Our paths crossed when we were both working at Facebook or Meta.
[00:00:37] Liz: Yep.
[00:00:37] Lisa: And it's been, gosh, at least four, five years since we've talked to each other.
[00:00:43] Liz: Exactly. When did you leave Meta? When did you leave Facebook?
[00:00:46] Lisa: Right at the beginning of 2018.
[00:00:48] Liz: Okay. Yeah. It's been at least... oh yes, it has.
[00:00:51] Lisa: Yes. So I'm excited to catch up and I'm excited to share with everyone your background. I think [00:01:00] you are just, you have the most fascinating background as far as not being born in the United States.
[00:01:06] Liz: Right.
[00:01:06] Lisa: From outside the country. So could you give us just a little bit about, your background, and then how old you are, where you are in your career today?
Just understand your career trajectory, so we can imagine the life of Liz.
[00:01:23] Liz: Yes. Yes. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me.
I was really quite thrilled to see the topic was around money and financial acumen because not a lot of people talk about it. And the more I have grown and matured and grown in my career, the more I think it's important to talk because unless people can talk about it openly, there's no way to help educate and help prepare the folks for these types of conversations.
So thank you for doing this. Lisa, thank you. So yes, you're right. I grew up in Kenya, born and raised in Kenya. In Kenya, I did my undergrad in English language and literature. I grew up in a middle [00:02:00] class, lower middle class family by Kenyan African standards.
One of six kids and the middle child. So five girls and one boy, and my parents... My Dad used to work at the airport, so the Civil Aviation Association, and my Mom was a teacher. So really right in the middle. It's a very patriarchal society. My Dad wanted to make sure that we all went to school. We all went to the highest level of education. In fact, when I was leaving Kenya to come to the States, I was dating somebody and we were engaged at the time. My Dad said to me, education is your second husband, essentially. Yes, you're going to marry this guy, but education is your second husband.
And that was his way of saying, just get smart, get sharp, educate yourself and don't rely on any one person. To take care of you. So that has always stuck with me, always stuck with me, is get smart, get sharp, educate, growth mindset, get curious, be curious, always. Which is something I know you're very similar, so I've always had that mindset.
So I [00:03:00] moved in '96. I was 26 years at the time. And everybody said to me,for you to really get ahead, you have to go to school. So I did my MBA when I moved to New York, at Baruch (CUNY) in General Management and HR Management, but that was my then foray into working and getting into corporate America.
But...
[00:03:18] Lisa: Okay.
[00:03:18] Liz: That was 26. Girl, I worked as a travel agent in Kenya before I moved to the States. Yeah. Yeah. And then after moving to the States is when going to school and then I was like, okay, you need to get sharp about your finances, what job opportunities there are out there for somebody with your background.
And it was after business school that I got an internship at the New York Times and then started hearing a lot about investment banking. And I was like, "I've got to get into investment banking."
[00:03:49] Lisa: Okay. What was it about investment banking?
[00:03:53] Liz: So a lot of it was the people that I was meeting either at business school or through the internships or when you go to these career fairs... I went to the [00:04:00] National Black MBA career fair, and every single time the folks that I was gravitating to or impressed with in terms of how they showed up and the way they talked about their roles, were investment banking people or people who worked at an investment bank.
And also started hearing about if you're trying to make a buck, the place to make a buck is in investment banking.
[00:04:19] Lisa: Okay.
[00:04:21] Liz: And so at the time, I was 26, 27, 28 at the time. I'm 52 now. And but for some reason that resonated. I remember just thinking, I look at the folks who are showing up, the people whose booths tend to have a lot of people around it.
I look at the people who their lifestyle seems to be the kind of lifestyle I want or aspire for myself and for my family. The people that I find intellectually just stimulating in terms of how they talk about their work. To me was the folks who were around banking or investment banking.
[00:04:52] Lisa: Okay. So you started off at the New York Times? How long were you there before you went to, is it [00:05:00] Goldman next?
[00:05:01] Liz: Yes, so I started at the New York Times. It was an internship, and I literally got that internship after going to one of the conferences and meeting the Head of HR. It was just a hustle. You were persistent about wanting to get at the internship at the Times. And they paid, good Lord, maybe about $15 an hour, $20 an hour. I didn't care. Honestly did not care. In my mind, like I was going to have New York Times on my resume. So got the internship are still going to school at that time, got the internship. And so I would work 20 hours at the Times.
And I was in the HR Department helping with a bunch of stuff on payroll, on their learning management system and putting content in their learning management system and courses. I spent time in the newsroom shadowing some of the reporters. So it was a very hodgepodge type of internship. But for me, it was a foray into working in America, so to speak. And then he said to me, "Listen, I think you can do more. [00:06:00] We don't have a role for you full time, and you could definitely do more." And at the time, Goldman was hiring. Goldman had gone public in July of 1999. I had graduated. They were looking for people to join their asset management, as well as recruiting functions.
And I had done some asset management work, studying, mostly reading about asset management. And so I interviewed with the asset management side and the recruiting side, and my introduction was on the recruiting side. And it was a role to help with recruiting on campus.
[00:06:34] Lisa: Okay. Okay.
[00:06:35] Liz: When they shared with me my compensation, I remember saying to my boyfriend, then fiance at the time... I said, "I'm going to be making $50,000 US dollars."
[00:06:49] Lisa: You were like, this is substantial. I have arrived.
[00:06:57] Liz: Then they started talking about stock options and you're going to be [00:07:00] getting restricted stock. And this is what your stock will look like. And oh, because you joined after we went public, here's some bonus, an additional, I think it was about $20,000 bonus. But I remember thinking, this is money I had never heard of or even imagined for myself.
[00:07:15] Lisa: Wow. So how long then were you at Goldman?
[00:07:19] Liz: So I was at Goldman for about four years. And actually, it was around after September 11th happened, when I got a call from Credit Suisse. And at Credit Suisse, John Mack, who had been at Morgan Stanley, had gone over to be the CEO. And he was looking to build their campus, their diversity recruiting initiatives. So I got a call from Credit Suisse.
[00:07:40] Lisa: Okay.
[00:07:41] Liz: "Hey, would you be interested?" So it went through the process, and they shared the compensation rate. Because I know this is a finance focused podcast, I remember thinking, "Oh, I get to build something at Credit Suisse and this is what compensation will be." And the compensation was maybe about $50,000 more than I was making at the time.
[00:07:59] Lisa: [00:08:00] Wow.
[00:08:01] Liz: I was like, and that's when you start getting a little bit more dangerous and aware of, "Oh, this is what happens. If you move companies and you go to this and you're building, this is it." If you have a "head of" role, this usually will come with a comp increase.
I started then just becoming a little bit more aware of increasing responsibility. If within the banking industry, they tend to have compensation ranges for certain types of roles. If you manage people, you're likely going to make more money. If you negotiate better, if you, "Hey, this is what else I'm leaving on the table in terms of comp and my shares."
If you negotiate better and you get more savvy about how their teams are set up, how they compensate folks. Then you can make the case for yourself. But if you just take it at face value, there's a likelihood that you're leaving money on the table.
[00:08:52] Lisa: Yes. Completely agree.
[00:08:54] Liz: Yeah, so it was them reaching out, my assessing, "Hey, I could continue working at Goldman [00:09:00] doing this and, or I could go to Credit Suisse and build something. And this is what it would entail." This would entail working, it would increase responsibility. You're working with more clients, but more importantly from a compensation standpoint, I think it was getting the offer from Credit Suisse and going...
[00:09:14] Lisa: Ah-ha....
[00:09:17] Liz: Yeah.
[00:09:19] Lisa: Starting to put the pieces together. Yes.
[00:09:22] Liz: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:09:23] Lisa: Very good. Was that job also in New York?
[00:09:27] Liz: Yes. Also in New York. Yep. Also in New York. I was there for about two years. And I remember, I think I mentioned this to you. I remember I was there for two and a half years and then got a call from Merrill because same thing was happening in banking.
It's a very tight market. Everybody knows everybody. So if they know you're doing something, you're most likely, people are going to call you and say, "Hey, we know you're doing this over there. Would you be interested in doing it here? We'll pay you more. We'll give you more responsibility. We'll give you more people. You'll have access to more leaders."
That's typically what happens, your name start getting around, the same names keep bubbling up. But I remember being at Credit Suisse, [00:10:00] and this woman who was a peer and then she got promoted. And when she got promoted, she decided to take an offer, an external offer.
And she said to me, "The day I decided to take an external offer when they said to me, I couldn't make more than $250,000 doing this role." And keep in mind, I may be making about a hundred and change. And I was like, "What?! People make $250,000 in recruiting?!?"
[00:10:27] Lisa: "And you're leaving because you're going to get paid $250,000?" Are you kidding me? Oh, my gosh. Yes.
[00:10:36] Liz: You know how it is, you start the building blocks of, oh, you could negotiate better. There's much more to be made or there's so much more opportunity here. Like it starts, the pieces just start falling into place.
[00:10:48] Lisa: How wonderful too, that she even threw that number out for you.
[00:10:53] Liz: Yes.
[00:10:54] Lisa: Prior to that, it may not have ever been on the radar.
[00:10:57] Liz: Exactly.
[00:10:58] Lisa: One woman [00:11:00] mentioning one number.
[00:11:01] Liz: Exactly.
[00:11:02] Lisa: Totally opened your eyes.
[00:11:03] Liz: Exactly. I remember Catherine saying that, and it was so eye opening to me that you could make it. And then more. Like you could make more than that is when I was like,
[00:11:13] Lisa: I had a lot of runway in front of me.
[00:11:19] Liz: I grew up and I don't know about you, but I grew up in a culture, and I've talked to many people in the US who have the same... "You do a good job and you will be compensated for it." You just put your head down, work really hard. But now you have to get savvy about, "what are the comp ranges?" "What is out there?" "What are people being paid to do similar work to what I'm doing?" I think there's a tendency sometimes to just take it for granted and just, "I'm going to just deliver," but you've got to get smart about what else is going on out there.
[00:11:43] Lisa: Yeah.
[00:11:44] Liz: Yeah.
[00:11:45] Lisa: So you're at Credit Suisse at this point.
[00:11:48] Liz: Yes.
[00:11:48] Lisa: And then Merrill calls.
[00:11:50] Liz: Exactly. Yep.
[00:11:51] Lisa: And then did you make the jump to Merrill?
[00:11:54] Liz: So I got a call from Merrill, and I was never thinking of leaving Credit Suisse. And when Merrill called, I [00:12:00] got a counter offer from Credit Suisse, which I accepted to stay.
I did.
[00:12:03] Lisa: Oh, interesting. Okay.
[00:12:05] Liz: They knew they were underpaying a little bit. And so they were very able to very quickly match. But I remember the reason I was even entertaining the call from Merrill was because the scope was much broader. And so I was in my role, like I had accepted the counter.
I was in my role for about a month. The guy who had reached out to me from Merrill said, "Hey, do you want to grab coffee? I want to check and see how things are going." Smart guy. He says to me, "the best time to recruit people is after they say no." If they're countered, then you check in with them and you see nothing, shit doesn't change that much after you accept a counter. Not really. So he called me, we had coffee, he said, "Listen, I just don't know that you understand the opportunity we have ahead." So after follow up conversation with him, I realized I had made the wrong call by accepting the counter. Went and had conversations with my boss, the leadership team, and I said, "The opportunity here, you can't present me this at Credit Suisse. Merrill is offering me the whole thing... retention, campus recruiting, working with leaders [00:13:00] when it comes to retaining their talent, it's a much broader role."
And the compensation was also super competitive at the time. It was above $250K, I had to take it.
[00:13:08] Lisa: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:13:09] Liz: Yeah. Right call. I was at Merrill for six years, and it was the right call. The culture... it was a very competitive, but also very nurturing environment where the leaders I had at the time gave you very direct feedback.
They supported you. I felt very supported as a black female, because that's not always the case as a black woman going into corporate America. I felt these were two white males who were so involved and so invested in not just my development, but the team overall. It was the right call, until of course the financial crisis happened and the company was acquired by Bank of America.
But from a personal professional standpoint, it was the best decision.
[00:13:48] Lisa: Okay.
[00:13:49] Liz: Yeah.
[00:13:50] Lisa: I love that. So at this point you've been at New York Times, Goldman, Credit Swiss, Merrill. Yes. And what was next? [00:14:00]
[00:14:00] Liz: So Merrill for six years and then the financial crisis happened in 2008 and 2009 and everything changed.
Merrill was acquired by Bank of America. My role changed. Before I had a much broader remit, but because Bank of America had at the time, maybe about 250,000 people working for them. So when they acquired Merrill, it's about a hundred thousand. So you really become a cog, like you become a cog in the wheel, you do.
And so I took on a very different role running a piece of campus recruiting, very different from the larger remit that I had. So I was with them six and a half, seven years. And then one of my former bosses from Goldman Sachs had gone to run HR at Bloomberg. She was like, we're trying to build our campus.
You know how it is, small industry. Everybody knows everybody. I was like, get me out of here because I really didn't like my role at Mel. Went to Bloomberg. Bloomberg was an all cash, whereas Merrill and them had this equity piece where you would get rewarded in shares or part of your compensation package was cash as well, your base.
[00:15:00] Bloomberg did not. Bloomberg was very much, you got mostly cash. And then how they did with terminal sales, you would get a percentage of your compensation would be terminal sales. The terminal sales target.
[00:15:11] Lisa: Okay.
[00:15:12] Liz: So not a public company, but that was the intro to me of RSU's and
having your compensation package be very much anchored to the success of the company, in a much broader sense. Again, back to relationships. It was somebody I worked with at Goldman many years before who was like, "get on over here."
I was there for about six and a half years. Started out running campus recruiting and then ran all of recruiting which was fantastic. Yeah.
[00:15:40] Lisa: Yeah. Great growth. Great.
[00:15:42] Liz: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And the other thing I liked about it, is I also got to work out of London, which gives you cachet because it means that you've done a global role.
You've not just worked in the US. So people start to look at you and talk about you differently. "Oh, she's really a global leader," type thing.[00:16:00] Bloomberg was my first intro to Tech as well, when I started hearing a lot about the Amazons of the world, the Googles, the Facebooks, the Palantir, the NVIDIAs of the world. And you're like, "Oh, there's this other world."
[00:16:12] Lisa: Yeah, right. There's a whole other industry out there. Yes.
[00:16:17] Liz: Exactly. Exactly. We were competing for talent with Tech. And every single time when a candidate had an offer from Tech, the big, the Faang companies, Facebook, Amazon, Apple, Netflix, Google, we knew we were going to lose out.
Inevitably going to lose out. And usually, it was around compensation. So I was like, "huh..." So you know how it is again, the building blocks from a ....okay, let me get sharp on this thing.
[00:16:40] Lisa: I'm observing. I'm putting all the information together.
[00:16:43] Liz: Yeah, exactly. And then was there for about six years, decided to take off a year because I'd been working since I was maybe 15, 16 years old.
So I left Bloomberg at the time because I felt I was tapped out. I was burned out. I looked at my finances, and [00:17:00] I saw that I had saved enough to take off a couple of months. Which became a year.
[00:17:05] Lisa: Okay.
[00:17:05] Liz: Going out doing nonprofit work, traveling a little bit and figuring out, "What do I want to do next?"
But I knew I wanted to be in Tech. I knew it. I wanted to be in Tech. So that's how I ultimately got a call from Facebook. I'd interviewed with Google, with Theranos at the time.
[00:17:20] Lisa: Really, you interviewed with Theranos?
[00:17:22] Liz: With Elizabeth Holmes. Yes. Yes.
[00:17:25] Lisa: Really?
[00:17:26] Liz: Oh yeah. Oh yeah.
[00:17:27] Lisa: Oh my goodness. What you know now.
[00:17:30] Liz: Oh my God. And I really wanted that role because she's impressive. I could totally get why people were impressed with her.
[00:17:36] Lisa: Oh yeah. Watching the documentary, I was like, man.
[00:17:40] Liz: Oh yeah. And she's one of those people that leans into you. She's talking to you, enamored. But that was when stuff was leaking into the news around how the tests weren't working as well. The machines that they'd put out, how reliable were they? Then I got a call from Facebook, Nina Choudhuri specifically, and Miranda, who I know we've both worked with. And I [00:18:00] was like, "Yeah, if this works out, I'm in."
[00:18:03] Lisa: That's amazing.
[00:18:04] Liz: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:18:05] Lisa: And you made the move to California.
[00:18:08] Liz: Exactly. Exactly. From New York. Yep.
[00:18:11] Lisa: Change.
[00:18:11] Liz: Yeah. Yeah. Huge change. Different.
[00:18:15] Lisa: And you were at Meta till...
[00:18:18] Liz: February this year.
[00:18:19] Lisa: Oh, really? Oh my gosh. Okay.
And then Meta started doing their RIFs.
[00:18:27] Liz: Exactly. Exactly. So I was there for the first round of layoffs, which was in November of the recruiting team. I think the recruiting team was one of the few teams to start. So I was there in November. I'd started seeing that, you start reading the tea leaves a little bit about this, shifting of the sands and the shifting of tides, that things are changing a little bit from a business standpoint.
Tech, you were seeing companies beginning to lay off. Twitter started to lay off, Airbnb, Uber, the same. And you're like, "Ooh, something's going down." And then I thought, usually the first place you look at is recruiting. Do you need this large of a team?
And then also I knew my trajectory was going [00:19:00] to be different because of who we had in the mix. And around August- October is when I got a call from Netflix. "Hey, we've got the Head of TA (talent acquisition) role. Would you be interested?" And I was like, "I really don't want to." I didn't want to leave Meta because it was such a good learning experience.
But started talking to the Netflix folks, also seeing how things were shaking out at Meta. I got the offer from them that Christmas week. I was like, "I'm doing this thing." So here I am now, running Talent Acquisition at Netflix.
[00:19:29] Lisa: Unbelievable.
[00:19:31] Liz: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:19:32] Lisa: Okay. Now I'm going to pick up the personal thread a little bit... When you came here from Africa, you were engaged? And that was back in 97 ish?
[00:19:44] Liz: Yep. Yep.
[00:19:46] Lisa: Did you get married? Are you married? Give us the update, inquiring minds want to know... what's the social status here?
[00:19:54] Liz: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Got married in New York in '98, we had a [00:20:00] wedding in New York, and we had a wedding in Kenya.
He is from Luxembourg. So he's European, grew up United Nations and really understood Africa. And that's part of the reason I gravitated to him, is really understood growing up in Africa and everything else. Got married. We were together for about 12 years. And then it was when I transitioned to Merrill that we separated and then ultimately got divorced because he really didn't love New York.
Meanwhile, I was just soaking it all up because I was just finding myself and growing into my own professionally. Whereas he was, he didn't like it. And as a UN person who likes working in developing countries, he was like, "This is not my jam." So we got separated, then divorced.
And then I was single from maybe around 2009
ish or 2008 to maybe about five years ago. So, oh yes, I was dating. I dated some long monogamous relationships.[00:21:00] But it just wasn't panning out until I moved to California.
[00:21:03] Lisa: Okay.
[00:21:04] Liz: And then met my partner now, Don. I met Don in 2017. I started at Facebook in 2016. I met him about a year later. At the Sheraton Palo Alto, getting ready for calibrations on my laptop, and that's how... I know.
[00:21:19] Lisa: No way.
[00:21:21] Liz: Way, Lisa.
I
[00:21:22] Lisa: I didn't know that.
He's a tall, dark, handsome man. Don't you each have a dog?
[00:21:28] Liz: Yeah. So we have two dogs. They're not here. They're in the other room right now. But yes, we have a little guy that I had before I met Don, and then we got the bigger guy, a Golden-Doodle after. So Simba is his dog cause he eats like Don. He's as big as Don. And then Tweegs, who's a nitpicky eater like I am, is mine. So yeah. No kids. He wasn't married before. He'd been engaged to somebody for a long time, but was not married. And yeah, that's us now for the last, maybe five years. Is it? Yeah, five years.
[00:21:57] Lisa: Oh, I love that. I'm so [00:22:00] happy about that. I just think that's fantastic.
[00:22:02] Liz: Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. Like literally, my ex husband, who's still a very, still very amicable. I think the challenge for him is he met me when I was this girl from Kenya, who was still finding herself, discovering the world. And so when I started taking on these roles, expanding roles, I think it was a bit, it was a challenge for him.
[00:22:23] Lisa: Yeah.
[00:22:24] Liz: It was.
[00:22:25] Lisa: Yeah I, hear that so often, as people marry and then continue to evolve.
[00:22:31] Liz: Yes. Yes. Exactly. Exactly.
[00:22:34] Lisa: So,
I want to jump into the money questions or at least some of the money questions I have. But you've been, we've been talking money this whole time, which I love. Tell me the big meta question is why is money important to you?
[00:22:53] Liz: Money is important to me because of the independence it grants me as a woman. [00:23:00] Not that it would be any different for anybody else, but for me growing up in Kenya, where scarcity was the order of the day. My Dad would give us all pocket money before we went off to boarding schools. He sold his car, so that he could educate all of us. Educating girls was not the thing to do. He was very committed to it. So I always grew up with this scarcity mentality. And I always said to myself, I want to be financially independent. I don't want to rely on my parents.
I don't want to rely on a man. I don't want to have such... depending so much on somebody else's financial situation to take care of mine. So for me, it's always been about how do I build financial independence so I can make decisions that aren't clouded, that don't cloud my judgment because I need so and so to support me or I need so and so to help.
No. So for me, it's always been about how do I get financial independence, be able to buy the house that I want, be able to buy the car that I want, be able to support my family if they have needs, my extended family. So it's always been about independence [00:24:00] for me. It has.
[00:24:01] Lisa: What money beliefs, did having that upbringing ingrain in you?
[00:24:09] Liz: It ingrained this... I'm also from a very religious Christian family.
[00:24:13] Lisa: Okay.
[00:24:14] Liz: We believe a lot in tithing, in a very altruistic philanthropy, supporting others. And so I always grew up with this, that whatever you have to give back to your family, to your community. If you only hoard it and you keep it for yourself, there's something fundamentally wrong with that.
So I found, when I started making more money that I would always want to give and to support my family, extended family members who had a need. So I don't know why, and my story about the $250K is always, "This is enough. Okay. I'm good now. I don't need to make more. I'm good now. I'm good." Do you know what I mean?
Like I always had this thing that, "Okay, okay. You can't want more, Liz. You can't want more." I remember being at Bloomberg when they wanted me to move back from London to the US, and the Head of HR at the time [00:25:00] said to me, "Here's what it will take. We're going to move you back and we're going to give you an additional $200 or $250K."
And I was like, "What am I going to do with all that money?" Because in my mind, I was making enough and I felt guilty about, and then slowly that guilt, when you move back to New York, and the quality of life and the cost of living, that goes away.
But I have this thing about... Don't aspire to make too much, like just make enough because what are you going to do with the rest of it? And that's been tested over time, what 'enough is enough' looks like. I want to be able to support extended family or people who have a need. It's always been something that is, "to whom much is given, much is expected," is how I think about it. Yeah.
[00:25:46] Lisa: I'm a huge fan of that Biblical principle of tithing and whether one reads it literally as the 10%... For me, I always did. And the Bible [00:26:00] is very clear when it says, "You tithe, you will have enough. You will have more than enough. In fact, your barns will be overflowing so much that they won't be able to hold the abundance."
[00:26:13] Liz: Exactly.
[00:26:14] Lisa: I have found that to be so true. And I love that that's that's your experience as well.
[00:26:21] Liz: It is. It absolutely is.
[00:26:24] Lisa: How have you managed your finances while also managing very advanced positions?
[00:26:31] Liz: Yeah. Yeah. And I really like that question. So I always debated, should I get dangerous and educate myself? When I was at The New York Times, I got into e-trading. I started doing my own little trading to understand. That was when E-Trade was the thing. I was like, let me just understand. Let me just figure out how to do this. I remember watching one Oprah episode where Oprah was you've got know every single penny that's coming into your account, every single check.
You've gotta know what's going on, so you've gotta know what's going on with your money. Just because you're making this, [00:27:00] you can't assume that if you get a financial advisor that they'll be okay. When I went to Merrill is when then they start assigning a financial advisor. So I had a financial advisor for about 10 years.
[00:27:10] Lisa: Ah, okay.
[00:27:12] Liz: Until I realized, which we talked about earlier, the fees I'm paying, the number of trades he's making. Because you see it on your... I was like, "Oh no, this is not going to work." So when I left Merrill, I stopped using a financial advisor. There's a guy, there's a financial advisor I normally will work with, he does it, he's a friend. And so we'll normally talk about ETFs. We'll talk about even cryptocurrency, but I tend to manage my own money. I do.
[00:27:38] Lisa: Yeah.
[00:27:39] Liz: I do.
[00:27:39] Lisa: I've learned so much about the exorbitant fees that so many advisors are charging. Or not even advisors, but "investment managers".
[00:27:50] Liz: Yes.
[00:27:51] Lisa: They'll be trading more frequently than you need to be,
products that are more expensive than they need to be, an expensive fund versus an [00:28:00] exchange traded fund, for example.
[00:28:02] Liz: Exactly. Exactly. Exactly.
[00:28:05] Lisa: What role did money play in how you managed your career?
[00:28:12] Liz: At the very beginning, not as much because for me it was just get into banking, get a role in investment banking, be challenged, have impact. That was more important to me. I didn't really thought about money until my Credit Suisse experience when I was like, "Oh increasing responsibility brings even more financial wealth creation opportunities," because I was very much about how do I create wealth so that I can walk away if I need to walk away?
If I got let go, that I'm not completely devastated. My situation is not devastated. So I've always, when I think about increasing responsibilities, what are the financials that comes to it? What does it mean? Because I should be compensated for the work that I'm doing.
If I think about the women and the men that I've managed.. The men, [00:29:00] Lisa, would inevitably ask about what is the comp that's coming with this, or the men would be the first ones on comp day or when the comp cycle is coming on.. Standing at... I remember this at Merrill... they would be standing at your door... chit chatting...
But just, bold about it. Whereas the women had my attitude, which is, "You know me. You've seen my work. You will reward me." And I started getting a bit savvier about it after that credit Swiss $250K opportunity. But I have, I've seen it as a leader, as a manager, as a individual contributor. I have seen how we need to be savvy.
Men tend to be so bold about, "I am doing the job, I should be compensated for the job." And they will tell you that over and over and over and over and over.
Drop it, they'll stand by you. They'll send you a note about it.
[00:29:47] Lisa: They'll send you an email, they'll leave you a voicemail, they'll text you...
[00:29:50] Liz: But being bolder and just being savvy about what does this role pay similar industry... Just getting savvy. So I've actually made job decisions, career decisions [00:30:00] based on, "Do I like this role? And is this role going to compensate me for the work that I'm doing?" So I have made some career decisions based on that.
[00:30:08] Lisa: When you look back on your career moves over time, what action... either move or role change, brought about your biggest pay increase?
[00:30:24] Liz: That's a good one. The move from Goldman to Credit Suisse was very eye opening about, oh, you could get a faster increase or a much, much higher increase by making that move. You could make a lateral move, but normally you want to make moves that are elevating you from a roles and responsibilities and from a comp standpoint.
So that's where I've seen the most increases is when I've made those moves as opposed when I've made the most in role. The biggest increase I got, I think, was when I went from Senior Director uh, percentage wise, at Meta to a VP.
[00:30:56] Lisa: Got it.
[00:30:57] Liz: And that was different. Then from [00:31:00] Meta to Netflix, because Netflix is mostly cash.
[00:31:03] Lisa: Okay.
[00:31:04] Liz: They don't do the RSUs. It's very much all of that in cash. That I think was the biggest increase. So increasing responsibility and then just a different compensation philosophy.
[00:31:13] Lisa: Yeah. Changing companies. It's critical in that process.
[00:31:18] Liz: It is. I think it's actually the fastest way.
[00:31:21] Lisa: Yeah. I think so. At least that's what I've seen.
[00:31:24] Liz: Yeah. I agree. Yeah, I agree.
[00:31:27] Lisa: Has there been any investment in your own professional development that you look back upon and think, "That was smart." Like a certification or a degree or a course, a coaching program... It could be anything, but anything that you've invested in yourself that you would say, "Yes, this is something I would highly recommend to other people."
[00:31:53] Liz: Yes, I think further education. So getting the MBA first and foremost, I think was a game changer. [00:32:00] Understanding business, understanding what is the role of HR as relates to the business. So definitely getting the additional certification, the MBA, I think was a big part. The other thing I would say was investing in an executive coach, because I knew I was confident. I knew I could do it, but I was concerned about my own background, my own ethnic background, and what factors... I was concerned about my not growing up here and how do I use that to my advantage, and talk about it to my advantage? Because when you talk to people who've grown up here, they've got high school friends who are in network and are plugged in. They can network with just about everybody.
You're on the back foot. When you've spent 26 years in a different country and then coming here. So the executive coach was really to help me with my own imposter syndrome. And to be like, okay, you can ask for this. Here's how you show up in a meeting. And there's other, you go to Goldman and mostly your Managing Directors have all gone to Tuck, Harvard.
And I'm coming with my, "Oh, I went to Moi University, Eldoret."
I knew I needed to address my own [00:33:00] imposter syndrome. And so the executive coach, who I continue to work with, has been somebody I leaned on to help with, "Hey, how do I express this? How do I talk about this? How do I change from being a manager to being a leader of leaders?"
I think investing in that, which is a financial commitment over the years, but I think it's one that has paid off really well.
[00:33:20] Lisa: Yeah. Substantial.
Yeah. Yeah. Have you experienced a financial setback in your life? Anything that you look back on and said, "Whew, that was a doozy. I had to recover from that one."
[00:33:34] Liz: Yeah, definitely when the financial crisis happened. Oh my God, the market, I think I forget how much I lost, but I lost a substantial amount that was with the financial advisor. I also invested a significant amount of money, which I'm embarrassed to even put out the number that I invested, in two friends who started a company that were going into real estate investments. And I put a certain amount of money where they said, "Hey, you could recoup this in about two years." I [00:34:00] was chasing them down, had to take them to court.
I know because that money was important. When you've been saving and saving, and then you make this commitment to friends who were building. That was a setback, absolute setback. And so I say, just get smart about the people you're investing in, the people you partner with, the things you do, because yeah, that set me back royally.
It did.
[00:34:24] Lisa: What have you outsourced in your life?
[00:34:28] Liz: That's a good one. So I do outsource things like house care, maintenance, home maintenance and all. I tend to stay very close to our financials. Don and I are very particular about our financials, so we tend to be very close to it. I work with a financial advisor, but he doesn't do all the investments with people.
We will talk at the beginning of the year, two to three times a year. What else do I outsource? But for the most part I tend to do it myself. I do.
[00:34:52] Lisa: Okay.
[00:34:53] Liz: I know your advice would be not. Would you advise me to mix it up a little bit?
[00:34:58] Lisa: For what?
[00:34:59] Liz: For [00:35:00] outsourcing, is it your advice from a personal and a professional standpoint to mix it up? Outsource some? Do some? What's your general point of view?
[00:35:09] Lisa: From a financial standpoint?
[00:35:11] Liz: Yeah.
[00:35:14] Lisa: I think you can manage all your own investments. I think the piece that you benefit the most from is the conversation around goals and making sure that you're living in alignment with what's important to you, and that the money matches your values.
[00:35:31] Liz: Yes.
[00:35:32] Lisa: So if time with the dogs and Don is critical, how is the money enabling the time with Don and the dogs?
That's the one thing. And then I think the second thing is just knowing if the goal is, I want to be 55.
[00:35:48] Liz: Yes.
[00:35:49] Lisa: And in Mexico.
[00:35:50] Liz: Yes.
[00:35:51] Lisa: Drinking pina coladas. All right. I feel like the financial advisor is really helpful in mapping out, [00:36:00] "Here's how much you would need." And then they can give you an investment strategy, being you're familiar and you're comfortable with it.
[00:36:08] Liz: Yes.
[00:36:09] Lisa: But if you just want, "Hey, give me a good mix of a portfolio that matches about this kind of a risk tolerance, that targets this percentage of a return, and hand it over."
And then you can manage it. You can rebalance it throughout the year.
[00:36:25] Liz: Right.
[00:36:26] Lisa: But it's really, I think it's really affordable to just, " Hey, give me a portfolio that matches these criteria and... "
[00:36:33] Liz: Yes, and I've taken on to your point.
To your point about, "Hey, this is what my risk tolerance level ..."
and of course my risk tolerance level has decreased over time. Is how do you shift then your investments based on, do I want to be able to pull it out quickly? How much of it is in equity? How much of it is in more... yeah.
[00:36:50] Lisa: Let me jump ahead to the speed round questions.
[00:36:54] Liz: Okay. Okay.
[00:36:55] Lisa: Are you ready for these?
[00:36:56] Liz: I am.
[00:36:58] Lisa: Okay. Here we go. What is [00:37:00] one thing that you will splurge on?
[00:37:03] Liz: So that would be, jewelry. I love me some jewelry.
[00:37:07] Lisa: Ooh...
[00:37:08] Liz: Jewelry.
[00:37:09] Lisa: After my heart. After my heart. Okay. What is one thing you're super frugal with?
[00:37:16] Liz: I'm very frugal with everything else. Most everything else, I tend to be super, super careful about. Where we spend food. Everything else, I tend to just be more measured. Entertainment, going out and eating. If we can do it at home, why do we need to go out?
[00:37:29] Lisa: Okay. What's the right percentage to tip when you go out?
[00:37:33] Liz: Oh my God. If it's really good service, I'll do 20% plus.
[00:37:37] Lisa: Okay. Okay.
[00:37:38] Liz: If it's okay, I'll do 15% ish.
[00:37:41] Lisa: All right.
[00:37:42] Liz: What do you think? Yeah. I meant to ask you about that, by the way.
[00:37:46] Lisa: I'm not going to tell, that's what I'm loving hearing different womens' answer to that. Okay. What is the right amount to spend on a car?
[00:37:54] Liz: So Don and I... Don is a big car guy, huge. [00:38:00] So we got a Tesla and we, I think we got the Tesla Model X and spent, I think about a hundred on it. So for us, it's over time, savings on gas, convenience, we don't tend to do a lot of road trips. So I guess for everybody, it differs for everybody. We went through a whole bunch of stuff. We said we knew we wanted to get an electric car and the Tesla because... we're in California, Northern California. Why not?
[00:38:26] Lisa: And do you guys share one car between the two of you?
[00:38:28] Liz: So we have one car between the two of us, but he has his toy. He loves the Corvette. So he has a 2014, 2015 Corvette, but no, we tend to share a car. We do.
[00:38:37] Lisa: Okay. What's the right budget for a one week vacation?
[00:38:42] Liz: Oh, that's a good one. Oh my God. Of course, it depends on where you are going on vacation. This is going to, I say about between $3-5K.
[00:38:52] Lisa: Okay. How much would you spend on a purse?
[00:38:55] Liz: Okay, I have spent, the last purse that I got was my Vuitton bag [00:39:00] and I got it for $1,500. Okay. It's a big enough size, I can fit my laptop. So the most I've spent on a bag is maybe about $2,000. I don't know that I would spend more than that.
[00:39:10] Lisa: Okay, alright. The most extravagant purchase you've ever made?
[00:39:14] Liz: Oh my god, it was jewelry. Absolutely jewelry. Absolutely jewelry. Yes. Yes.
[00:39:21] Lisa: Okay. All right. And then last question for you, Liz, do you have a favorite money related quote or mantra?
[00:39:31] Liz: Yes. I will go back to what I just said. To who much has given, much is expected. And to me that is money and everything else.
It's all about resources, is being responsible with it, being able to support others and help others with it. But the sense of responsibility that comes with, "to whom much is given," to me, I take that to heart. And it's always been something, this was my Dad and my Mom who first told me about, talked about that.
And so I've always taken that to heart. And I take that to heart with everything, whether it's money, whether it's [00:40:00] resources, whether it's my time, whether it is friends and family, whereas I might have something in abundance and anybody does not, I feel the responsibility to give back in some way. Yeah, so that's one that I tend to come back to, I do.
[00:40:13] Lisa: Thank you.
[00:40:14] Liz: Yes.
[00:40:15] Lisa: Today's time with me is definitely a huge give back.
[00:40:19] Liz: Thank you for asking me. Thank you for doing it. And I can't wait to see what else you do. I'll be on the lookout by the way. I will Lisa.
[00:40:25] Lisa: Okay, good.
[00:40:26] Liz: Take care. Thank you. You too.
[00:40:29] Lisa: Thanks for listening. Money Talks are hosted by myself, Lisa Clements, owner of Clear Springs Wealth. If you enjoyed this episode, share it with someone you think could benefit from talking more about money. Make sure you leave a rating, a review and subscribe so you never miss an episode. You can find show notes at clearspringswealth.com/moneytalks Thanks so much.
